Friday, December 28, 2012

Answer to Calvinism

Hello friends, below is my reply, Brytni's comments are in red, mine in black. If I missed a few questions I apologize, this was a very big study, if anyone one has any questions for me, feel free to ask.

God Bless,

Flame of Jah

1. Genesis 2:16-17 is not talking about “making a decision for Jesus”. Also, I believe that our omniscient, wise, Creator knew that man, by his own wicked heart would sin. Thus they would need a savior, so He chose some to save and those He purposed to save He did. John 6:38-40 (more on that later) Do you believe in God’s omnipotence and Sovereignty?

2. Deuteronomy 30:19 is not talking about a “decision for Christ”. It is declaring God’s conditions for life and blessing in Canaan. Israel was God’s Elect and Chosen people. They did not choose Him. Deuteronomy 7:6 Yes, they, just like we Christians today, can choose to obey Him or disobey. Those who disobey are not assured of their salvation. II Peter 1:10-11

3. Same goes for Joshua 24.

I quoted Genesis, Deuteronomy and Joshua to illustrate that man has a free will. God gave man a choice in the garden. Of course God knew man would sin, but, he did not create man to sin. Look here, if man was created with a wicked heart how could God look at all creation and say it was very good? If God made man with a wicked heart, how can he judge man for sin, seeing he created him to sin? Such a notion contradicts scripture which is clear that God is Holy and Just. In Deuteronomy and Joshua it is also very clear that man has a free will, God set before the Children of Israel life and death, and said Choose you this day who you will serve. God didn't make them serve him, he gave them a choice of serving him. No the children of Israel did not choose to be God's chosen people, he chose them but, they did choose whether or not to serve him.

4. We must compare Scripture with Scripture. There are NO contradictions in the Bible. We also must look at context. Jesus Christ told those Pharisees in Matthew 9 and Mark 2 that He didn’t come to call the righteous but the sinners to repentance… Were the Pharisees righteous so they did not need Salvation? Did they not sin? Of course they did! The Bible says that anyone who says He hasn’t sinned is a liar. Okay, so the key word in both texts is REPENTANCE. The publicans and sinners that Jesus was calling repented. He is also the Lord Himself. He is Very God. He knows whom He elected and said that He would lose none of them. Did He lie? Is He weak or unable to accomplish what He set out to do? No! He will lose, none of HIS. Also, I will remind you of the verse that I mentioned before, John 1:12 says that we are not born of the will of man… Is God a liar? He said He hates some. Is He a liar?

I agree there are no contradictions in the Bible. Of course the Pharisees sinned, all have sinned, I repeat All. If you say you have not sinned, lol, you just sinned to say that. Sorry that just struck me as funny. Anyway, yes I know Jesus is God, but, Jesus in the context you are quoting is speaking of his disciples, the twelve, and he did lose one, he said so himself, you have to read the whole verse, all were elect, but one didn't make it. Jesus said, While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
5. I am not sure where you got your definition of believe, but here it is from the dictionary:
a. to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so
b. to have confidence or faith in the truth of a positive assertion, story, etc.; give credence to.
c. to have confidence in the assertions of a person.
d. to have a conviction that a person or thing is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation
e. to be persuaded of the truth or existence of.
f. to have faith in the reliability, honesty, benevolence, etc., of
I do have confidence that Christ died for me! I believe it! But that is not because I chose Him; it is because He chose me! If He had not loved me, I could not and would not have loved Him. ! John 4:19 Are you more powerful than God Himself?

1 John 4 is speaking to believers, and 4:19 says that “We love him because he first loved us.” I never denied that God loved us, (all men). I do not understand why you even ask such a question, what did I say that sounds as if I think I am more powerful than God?

6. John 3:15-20 are such abused versse that it would be too lengthy to try to comment about them entirely here. I will simply say, the text is not structured conditionally with a future conditional (If . . . then). The verses primarily state the Son of Man’s death to secure eternal life for the elect. And secondarily state that the evidence (John’s purpose in writing) is faith. Also, If God loved the whole human race without exception so very, very, very much . . . Why couldn’t or wouldn’t He save very many of them? He is the Savior, isn’t He? How do babies, the mentally handicapped, and the heathen get to heaven without a chance to believe? How did people get saved in the Old Testament before they could believe on Him? Why will He profess He never knew most men in any affectionate way? Why has He kept the gospel from most men in the history of the world? What good is His love for the “whole world” with most men going to hell? It isn’t a very meaningful love. What is the difference between the saved and the lost? Did they save themselves? Are those in hell separated from His love, which He promised could never happen? Can any human ever go to hell, since Jesus promised He would lose not one? Is His love better than that of a whore, who offers it to strangers without any loyalty? How should men love their wives as Christ? By loving all women equally including them? Also, who was the Bible written to? The unregenerate or His children?

First please comment on John 3:15-20, I'd love to hear it.
Why has God not saved the whole world? Because he gave man the free choice to choose between life and death, we all can be saved, but he has given us the choice. I cannot answer what happens to babies, but mentally handicapped can get saved, ask Corrie Ten Boom, I am surprised that you asked that, with what you believe most of mankind is going to go to hell without a choice, and you seem concerned that babies and mentally handicapped don't get a chance under free choice? You believe a huge portion of mankind is going to hell, with no choice in the matter, why should it matter to you? Do you think all babies and mentally handicapped are somehow automatically Elect? I am not mocking you here at all, please do not take me as doing such. How did People get saved in the old Testament? By faith, read Hebrews, their faith in God was counted to them for righteousness. They certainly did make it by works lol, look at David, he was a sinner just like the rest of us. Why has He kept the gospel from most men in the history of the world? He hasn't, read Romans 1, the very creation is evidence for him, therefore man is without excuse. What good is his love for the whole world, with most men going to hell? He loved us so much that he took on himself to die for us, to pay the penalty for our sins, he left it up to us to believe on and confess him. Not a very meaningful love? Wow, God loved us so much to pay the penalty for all the sins we chose to commit, and offered us the free gift of salvation through him, and you say that isn't meaningful? What is the difference between the saved and the lost? Did they save themselves? No. Just, No. The saved did not save themselves, Christ gave his blood to cover all sins, the saved are those that chose to except his gift of salvation, the lost are those that chose not to. I am not sure what you mean by these last questions, what are you referencing that brings you to ask these questions? Where did God promise that the whole world would not be separated from his love? What are you asking here?

7. Romans 10:9-13 Descriptions of evidence do not offer eternal life by conditions. To do so would be to say that you are saved by works. Do you believe that your works save you or Jesus Christ? Again, compare Scripture with Scripture. Just because you “take His name into your mouth”, does not mean you are His. Matthew 7:21 or Matthew 25 that we already mentioned in the other post. Also, we are told, that you cannot say that Jesus is Lord unless it is by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3 Again, not by our decision, but His.

Before I answer this we must define what “works” are. What does it mean to work? Is believing a good work? Those that try to work to get to heaven, they are laboring, which is what work means, to labor. Look up work in the dictionary,
Work: activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something:
a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result
b : the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood
c : a specific task, duty, function, or assignment often being a part or phase of some larger activity

Conditions are not works, and to say that there are conditions for salvation does not say that salvation is by works. I believe that I am saved by the grace of God, through his son Jesus Christ: For by grace are ye saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9. Is it work to accept a gift? I agree that just because you confess Christ does not make you saved, but that was not the only condition, it also said, that you must believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. Hmm, you are contradicting yourself, you just said that you can say that Jesus is Lord and not be His, but you also say that you cannot say that He is Lord except by the Holy Ghost, so, that is true, does that mean some unsaved folks have the Holy Ghost? What I am getting at here is that, you can say Jesus is Lord in two ways, in belief and unbelief. You can only say it in belief by the Holy Ghost.

8. You have assumed correctly. I believe that the LORD elected some to be vessels of honor and some of dishonor. Romans 9 I believe that God hates some and loves others. Psalm 5:4-6 I believe that the LORD gave His Son Jesus Christ the power to save as many as He gave Him. John 17:2

To elect something does not make it final, we elect the president, but until he is sworn in he is not the president, same with Christians, God elected those to be saved, but until you believe you are not one of his. He elected you to be saved, but you must believe to be saved. Romans 9 is speaking of the Jews, not Christians, and John 17:2 is speaking of the twelve disciples.

9. To answer your question, Justice means: the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness. So, no. if God chose some of us and sent others to hell, He would be unjust. It would only be fair to send us all to hell and save none. However, He is not unjust but sacrificed His Son for those He chose to save. Those men and women are covered in His righteousness. It would be unfair of Him to make His Son go through that agony for some who would reject Him! He is far more just than you or I can even comprehend! How dare anyone call Him otherwise for deciding to throw wicked, God hating men, in hell!
10. Asking the question “is that just for God to arbitrarily choose some over others” is shameful. God is God. He is JEHOVAH! How dare anyone say anything against His will! Paul wrote about you! He knew your heart! He knew it’s rebellion against the LORD!
“Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:20-24

Brytni you are saying that God is unjust, for you said, that he would be unjust if he chose to save some and send some to hell. Then you say he only sacrificed his Son for those he chose to save, which is just another way of saying that God chose to save some men and not to save others. Let's get this straight. If God indeed did create man with a wicked sinful heart, God cannot be just and throw any man into hell or punish any man at all period. Why do I say this? You sew yourself a dress, then when it is all complete you want it to be a skirt instead, can you get mad at the dress for not being a skirt when you created it to be a dress? Of course not, likewise God being just, cannot punish men he created with a wicked heart, for sinning. Those that reject Christ are those that pay for spitting in his face when they refuse to accept the gift provide by him at the cross. Everyone that rejects Christ tramples in his blood. Think of it this way, you sacrificed everything to make a wonderful gift for someone, you present it to them and they fling it on the ground and walk on it, Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice, his life, he gave his life, shed his blood to pay for all men's sins, he offered man the free gift of eternal life through his blood, if they will just believe on him, unfortunately, many decide to make it their own way they decide to work it out, they tell Christ that his gift is too easy, or they say he isn't offering it because they don't want to give up their sin, and thereby they trample on his gift. Brytni, I was not calling God unjust, I was just looking from the perspective of justice at what you believe, let us not believe any doctrine that would make God to be unjust, Calvinism does just that.
I was not questioning the justice of God, but the justice of Calvinism. Calvinism makes God unjust, it dictates that he would create men to sin, pick out a group for no known reason, forgive their sins, and the rest he punishes for eternity for sins they had no choice but to commit as they were created with a sinful nature. It is not rebellion to question a doctrine the makes God unjust. I am not questioning how God made me, I am questioning a doctrine that makes God unjust, and the Bible a lie!
In contrast: I believe that God created man sinless and perfect, and endowed him with a free will to choose. Man chose to sin, God sent the law to convict man of sin and to prove to man that you cannot work yourself to heaven, God then sent his Son, who became a man, suffered from the same temptations as us, then gave himself the perfect sacrifice for all men's sins everywhere.

11. You ask, “Why need Christ die if God elects some?” You told me yourself… It would be unfair to save us because of our sins! BUT>>>He, the Just Judge, had those sins paid for and covered by the Blood of the Lamb! If He had not killed His Son we too would be damned. You belittle the Cross and the power of Christ’s Blood spilt! You say that He cannot do what He said He would, that He is too wimpy to save those who He wants to. No one deserves a spec of a tiny chance to go to heaven. We should be on our knees thanking God for the mercy He gave! Not replying against Him because of the mercy we think He should have given! It is wicked rebellion to ask God if He is fair! We live in a generation of rebellion. One tainted with the thought that everything is “unfair”. Let us not be spotted by that world.

I did not say that Christ couldn't save us because of our sins, I said he cannot arbitrarily pick those to save and not give everyone a choice and still be just. Christ died for the ungodly, anyone who believes in him is saved, Christ died for all, everyone, everywhere. (Acts 17) You are saying that Christ only died for a select group of men, when he died for the whole world, not just a select group, his blood is sufficient to cover all sins, what you believe is belittleing the cross. Also, God did not kill his Son, Christ had a choice, and he chose to lay down his life for us that we might be saved. When I say us, I mean mankind. Of course no one deserves to go to heaven, and of course we should thank God for his mercy, that is a given.

12. You told your readers to read the Bible without any bias from doctrines of men… You read it and do the same. Do not take your favorite sound bite verses from the word of God that you want to base this doctrine on because you think that God, The Almighty, All Glorious, Just, Jealous, Incomprehensible, Independent, Merciful, Benevolent, Omnipotent and only Wise God, is unfair, and twist them to say so! God is perfect! Holy! and Righteous! He will soon come to judge the quick and the dead… Let us be found faithful to the true Word that He wrote.

Lay the accusations aside Brytni, you have totally misunderstood my reply to you, if you have read this far, you will understand that I was not doubting, or accusing God, but rather, attempting to show you where belief in Calvinism leads. It is a given that God is Holy, Just, and Merciful, I never doubted that, let us not believe any doctrine that says otherwise.


Brytni let me ask you some questions: What assurance do you have of salvation? How do you know that you are one of the “chosen”? You sin, just like I, none of us are perfect, remember, all unrighteousness is sin, in light of that think about what you said in your comment that those who disobey are not assured of their salvation, that would mean that you have no assurance, so how do you know that you are saved? I hope and pray that you read and consider what I have written to you, most of all, I hope that you read your Bible and understand the truth. Don't take my word for it, check it up in scripture, don't follow any men, all men can make mistakes. I am praying for you!

Flame of Jah

Thursday, December 6, 2012

Salvation: Choice, or election?

Hello brothers and sisters,

Below is my reply to Brytni's comment on my last post, Hell Part II.

Where do I read about a decision for Christ? Let's start at the beginning of the book. First we must establish that man has a free will. In Genesis 2:16-17 God gives man his first choice, he tells him not to eat of the tree, if he does, he will die. In chapter 3 man decides to eat of said tree, thus exercising his free will.

Again we see in Deuteronomy 30:19 Moses lays before the children of Israel the blessing and the curse and tells them to Choose. If they did not have a free will why would he tell them to choose?

Similarly Joshua in chapter 24, they are told to choose who they will serve. Time and time again through the old testament we see people given the choice of serving God or the devil, life or death, so, in the old testament man clearly has a free choice. If he did not God would not be calling Israel to choose who they would serve, or calling them to return to him, not ordering, but pleading with them to return

Let's have a look at the New Testament now.

Matthew 9:13 Jesus came not call the righteous but sinners to repentance. Why would he call if they had no choice but to come?
Mark 2:17 repeats this
Read the Parable of the sower, the people had to receive the word sown.
Mark 16:16, you must believe to be saved. What does "believe" mean? You cannot believe without choice. You have to make a choice to believe.
Ok, let me cut this short, and just say, all over scripture, man has a free will to do as he pleases, he can choose good or evil, God or Satan and so on.

Back to your question, well, sort of, first let us look at the definition of believe. "Believe: To accept something as true." Therefore, "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." John 3:15-20

And, further: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all the call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:9-17

These are just two of the many passages on this, we must believe to be saved, and believing is a choice. To believe you must accept it as truth, and to accept you must make a choice, a decision.

Where does God offer salvation to the wicked? What is your definition of the word wicked? Are not we all? Let us see: Wicked: Evil. What does evil mean? Morally reprehensible, sinful. Think of the scripture: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9. Think on this: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 Notice it says any? God came to call sinners, in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not some sinners, all sinners. In the book of Revelation, during the great tribulation God once again calls all men to serve him. All men, not just some, not just the non-wicked, but all men. All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23. If all have sinned, and God came to call sinners, then, He must be offering salvation to all because he is calling sinners.

From your post, I understand that you believe that Christians are the Elect, and all the rest are un-Elect? You come from the position that God Elected certain people to be saved, and the rest are damned, and that I assume also, that you believe that we are sinful by nature. If I am correct in all of this, please answer this one question; What is Justice? We both agree that God is a God of Justice. Let me define the word, Justice: The quality of being just, impartial, or fair. Okay, let us look closely at election...

Right off we have a problem, God is just, but, election is not. You see, if we humans are sinful by nature, that is, we have no free will, we sin just as we breath, we have to, because it is part of us, how can God if he is just, send anyone to hell seeing he created us this way? How can he judge us for sin we had no choice but to commit? Let us look at it from another angle. All have sinned, that is made very clear in scripture so, that means that God chose a certain group of sinners arbitrarily, and they go to heaven, everyone else to hell. Is that just? I mean really? We all sin, but some of us for no reason other than God deciding it go to heaven, and everyone else, just as bad as us, are all going to hell. Um, we have a problem of justice here. It is like four gangsters are brought before a judge for murder, all four are totally guilty, but the judge chooses to save one of them and sends the rest off to execution. Would that be just? How can he punish some of them, and let one go? They are all guilty. Same with God, it would not be just for him to punish some, and have mercy on some would it? If God is just, election as I believe you see it cannot work, it would violate the very nature of God, it violates scripture which repeatedly speaks of God being righteous and just, long-suffering and merciful. Would you call it merciful for God to give mercy to a certain group of people and not even give the chance to everyone else?
I have a question to ask you: Why did Jesus die? If God chose who should be saved from the foundation of the world, why need Christ die since they were already chosen?

I hope that in this post you will see that, God calls all to repentance, since all are sinners and he calls the sinners. That, salvation is a choice, not forced, we choose to believe, or not. That election is unjust, unfair, and unrighteous, and if God is Just and Righteous, then election could not happen. This post may come across as harsh, I don't mean it so, I just mean to speak the truth, if I am wrong, show me how from scripture, I am open and listening.

On closing, I implore all of my readers this day, please read your Bible. Read it carefully from beginning to end, please, read it without any bias from doctrines of men, just read what it says, and believe it, don't just listen to men tell you what it says, check on them, check every doctrine in the light of all of scripture, please don't for anything base your doctrines on just part of scripture, don't just use a few verses use the whole of scripture.

God Bless,

Flame of Jah

Sunday, December 2, 2012

Hell Part II

Okay, so hell is real in all that, but what is it like?  For the sake of time and simplicity, I will combine hell and the Lake of fire in this post, they are different as in different places, but they are both very similar in what they are like.

In the last study we learned that hell is a place of torment, in the presence of God with fire.  It sounds bad, but let me illustrate just what it might be like.  You are dropped into the middle of a bonfire...  You cannot escape... You can feel all the pain of the flame, but...  You cannot die...  Ever...  You are thirsty... There is no water...  The pain continues you wish to die but you cannot...  All the while in the back ground others in the fire are screaming and gnashing their teeth...  You are too...  Just think of this all for a minute, imagine the above scenario for two minutes, what about ten?  How about sixty?  One day?  A year?  How about eternity?

We have all been burned sometime in our lives. Imagine the pain of the burn going on forever, it never diminishes, and you never die.  On top of that you are desperately thirsty.  You cannot quench your thirst at all, there is no water, think about what it is like when you are really thirsty, then start adding time, and heat, imagine the pain and desperation.  You cannot escape.  On top of all this you have all the teeth gnashing, and the moans screams and groans, along with the horrible suffocating smell of sulfur.  Folks, words fail to tell the half of it, you have to really feel it to know. 

Say have you ever been burned really bad?  I have, it was a steam burn to the face, and it hurt terribly for days, after the source of heat was removed.  I can't even imagine if it was a dry burn how it would have hurt, and folks, it wont be wet in  hell, it will be fire, not steam.  Have you ever tended a large brush fire?  How unbearable the heat can be, even when you are at a distance, just think of being actually in the fire, what would it be like then?  Hell is like that but worse.  In hell there is no second chances, you are there to stay, no escape, no help, you are stuck there, burning, burning forever.  The pain is worse than anything that can be described, and it goes on forever.  Stick you finger in the flame of a candle and hold it there till you cannot bare it, multiply that pain by a hundred all over your body, make escape impossible, death impossible, water no where to be found, throw in the stifling sulfur, the gnashing, and eternity, then my friends you have hell. 

Here is some good news to end on, nobody has to go there, no one, period.  I'll tell you about that next post.

God Bless,
                 Flame of Jah

Wednesday, November 14, 2012

Who wrote Ecclesiastes?

In the back of my Bible it says that its author is unknown, except that he is a son of David and a King over Israel.  That is absolutely wrong.

In chapter 1 verse 16 it says:  I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.

That verse tells us that the author was wiser than all before him.  What son of David was wiser than all before him?

Now look at chapter 2 verse 1-7 especially 7:  I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me:

He was richer than all that were before him.  Now what son of David was richer and wiser than Solomon?  From this you see, Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes.   There was no son of David as great as him.

Thanks for reading.
                                  In Christ,
                                                     Flame of Jah

Thursday, November 8, 2012

Hell part I

Upon further study, and per a question asked by someone here, I have found it needful to change the format of this series.  In part one I will show that Hell is real, and will cover what it is.  Part two I will cover Death, Part three, The Lake of Fire, Part four, How not to end up in any of those places.  So, without further ado, let us jump right into our discussion, "Is Hell real, and if so, what is it?"

Is Hell real?  The short answer is, yes, it is real, very real.  The Bible speaks of hell directly many times, such as Deuteronomy 32:22 "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains." Or, Proverbs 7:27 "Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death."  Or further, Luke 16:23 "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazerus in his bosom..." Revelation 20:13-14 also, "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." So  there is a place called "Hell".

What is this place called Hell?  Hell is a place of torment for all those that have sinned.  It has fire: Matthew 5:22, Matthew 13:50, Mark 9:27, Luke 16:23-24, and James also mentions the tongue being set on fire of hell.  It is a pit, Ezekiel 26:20, Revelation 9:1.  It is down, Numbers 16:30 and 33, Psalm 30:3, Isaiah 14:15.  It is dark: Matthew 8:12. Last but not least there is weeping and gnashing of teeth in it, Matthew 8:12, 13:50, and 22:13.

Is Hell eternal separation from God?  In light of Scripture no.  In Psalms it speaks of hell saying, "if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there," Psalm 139:8, that Psalm speaks of God's omnipresence, He is everywhere all the time, and no where is separation from Him.  Even the lake of fire after the final judgment is in the presence of the Lord, Revelation 14:10-11.  So no, hell is not separation from God.  If that was all it is, it would not be a punishment for some people for they hate God and don't want to be in His presence anyway.

So there you have it, hell is real, hell has fire, and hell is not separation from God.  Be sure to check back for part two, What is hell like?

God Bless

Sunday, October 7, 2012

A series on Hell....

It seems that there is much confusion today among believers and non-believers alike as to the true nature of Hell.  In the next series of posts I will use scripture to establish, that, Hell is, and what it is.  Why is this important?  First and foremost, I believe that it is due to a misunderstanding of what Hell is that leads so many believers into apathy.  If you really understood how terrible that place is, and truly believed that it was real, you'd feel a much greater burden to tell people that they are in sin and going there, and that they must believe on Jesus Christ to be saved from it.  Hell is very real, and it is very dreadful, when I think about it, I can only but thank God for His gift to us, so that we don't have to go there.  It is very interesting that the Church has made a shift to preaching on getting saved so that you can go to heaven.  That is not why Christ died, He died to pay for our sin, so, if we believe on Him, we don't have to pay the just penalty for our sins, in Hell.  Hell is where all non-believers go, and if Jesus had not paid the penalty for our sins, we'd be there too.  Jesus did not die so we could go to heaven, he died out of mercy to give us a way to not go to hell. Next post up, I'll prove that hell is real, and that it is a real place of torment.  After that I'll try to illistrate in a post what would be like to be in Hell.  Remember folks, eternity is a long time, a very long time, please don't forget that...

May the Lord Bless you as you study His word, and serve Him from day to day,

Flame of Jah

The Printing

I just wanted to tell y'all about my favorite movie...  It is the first movie since I don't know when that I could just watch over and over, it is one of those movies that challenges me to live for the Lord, and to fully surrender to Him.  If you haven't seen it, you need to, it is the best.  It is the true story of Russian believers printing Bibles, telling of their courage and triumphs.  Forget what the DVD producer said, that is not true, in my own research, the story is true, with just a few changes and composites to protect the people involved, (this was made while the events were taking place,).  So there, that is my favorite movie, it bumped my long term favorite to second place, Pamela's Prayer, (still a very good movie, The Printing just edges it out for me in this time of my life).

That is all for now folks,

God Bless,

Flame of Jah

Saturday, September 29, 2012

A quick update...

Hello friends,

Just wanted to let you all know that I am indeed still alive, and that I will be posting soon.  I am doing well, and I hope all of you are too.  I am also posting just to see if anybody even reads my blog anymore, besides ofcourse the creepy add bot from Russia that views my blog from time to time.

Well, have a great day y'all,

In Christ,

Flame of Jah

Sunday, August 12, 2012

This sets a dangerous precedent...

I got this in an e-mail from public advocate, I thought I'd pass it along, it is pretty serious.  Slowly but surely America is becoming a Socialist Nation.  Pray....

“Homosexuals are a protected class.”

It is terrifying how calmly Judge Tim Garcia of the New Mexico Court of Appeals uttered these words.

With one sentence, he set a legal precedent that will be used to strip Americans of their constitutionally protected religious freedoms across this nation.

He ruled that a Christian photography company did not have the right to refuse to photograph a homosexual “wedding” ceremony.

It didn’t matter that New Mexico legally defines marriage as one man and one woman, and that the homosexual “wedding” was outside the law.

And it didn’t matter that Jonathan and Elaine Hugeunin are both devout Christians who find homosexual “marriage” to be unnatural and offensive.

Their religious freedoms did not matter because:

“Homosexuals are a protected class.”

And according to the courts, when they refused to give their blessing to an illegal and immoral ceremony, Jonathan and Elaine committed a "Hate Crime."

This is exactly the threat Public Advocate has been warning Americans about for decades.

The courts and the government have created a second standard by which the actions of homosexuals -- and the actions of mainstream Americans towards homosexuals -- are judged.

The owners of Elane Photography did not hurt anyone. Or damage anything.

They committed no crime.

They just said “No.”

But the courts have ruled that homosexual “rights” are more important than religious freedoms.

The judge actually said that homosexuals are entitled to greater protections than small children!

At the heart of this ruling is the Thought Control Bill Obama signed into law his first year in office; a bill Public Advocate fought tooth-and-nail to stop.

It states that any unfavorable act against a homosexual is a "hate crime."

And it is just the start.

If the Gay Bill of Special Rights is ever passed, homosexuals will become the true super-power in America.

I am proud to say that I have led Public Advocate against the Gay Bill of Special Rights more times than I can remember.

The radical Homosexual Lobby has been trying to pass it for decades, but you and I have stopped them every time.

And even with the most pro-homosexual president in history, I know -- with your help -- Public Advocate can hold off the enemy this year too.

Saturday, August 11, 2012

Hello friends

Hello everyone.  I am back, and my blog will be back soon.  I am going to be doing a lot of changes in the next few days, and some of the old posts will be back, and hopefully some new ones soon.

God Bless,

                         Flame of Jah

Monday, June 25, 2012


Or, a note on crushes...

My friends, I have had them, I read of Christian girls, and guys having them, they are normal eh?  Normal does not make it right though.  I have decided to examine this in light of logic, and scripture to see if it stands up to the test.

Logically it is pretty dumb to have a crush on someone.  You are practicing falling in love with someone, you are often creating a character that is not real because often you don't really know the person, sometimes not at all.  Even if you do not date, you are really dating in your heart, folks.  It is one and the same, you see a person you like, and you go out with them emotionally, you give your heart to them, then, either you find someone you like better, or, you find something about that person that you don't like, and you move on, or if you are at all like me, you move in circles, and keep adding to the circles, and have the crush of the month.  Ok, lets see, how does this pattern prepare you for marriage?  Really?  I mean you fall in love, (or lust,) with someone, and then you move to  another, or maybe you even have a couple at once that you juggle, then one day, you are married, how are you going to stop looking at others when your spouse becomes normal?  What if your spouse turns out not to live up to the perfect character you projected?  I remember Gothard saying that at a wedding there are actually six people getting married, who she thinks she is, who he thinks she is, who she is, who he thinks he is, who she thinks he is, and who he is.  The goal is to of course try to make as little difference between those people as possible, and that is what courtship is for.  Creating a false character in your mind will not help smooth over this at all.

To go farther, say you have a crush on a certain actor, or actress, you are generally only having a crush on who they portrayed, not them.  You don't know them, only time you see them is in movies, or on a stage in their perfect behavior.  If you really knew them, often you would be repulsed, or maybe find out that they are already married, then that means that you are committing adultery with another person's spouse for  the lust is adultery.  Folks to be really honest having a crush on somebody is often adultery.

I will now quickly recap.  Having crushes will not prepare you for marriage, they are often very casual loves, because we know that we can never have them, but we dream about it anyway.  Often crushes are simply lust, (they always were for me,) and lust is adultery.  Crushes are mostly based on a projected character, not a real person. 

So my friends, that sums it up, having a crush is stupid, and is sin...

The End.

Saturday, June 2, 2012

An often overlooked fact...

I thought of this the other day, and it is quite interesting how it is overlooked by many.  It is often argued that people's gender is simply what they were raised as.  That is, that if you were raised as a girl then you became one.  So, it that is true, then that would mean there really is no gender, gender is simply defined by input from an outside source, remove that input and the person then is free to express themselves as to what gender they really are.  If this is true, and if man is an animal, (which those that gender is defined by how you are raised believe,) then why are animal's gender not the same?  We do not encourage a goat doe to be that, she is that at birth.  If the animals are what they are, when they first come into this world, (really before,) why are people not the same?  Just a thought...

God Bless,
                   Flame of Jah

Tuesday, May 8, 2012

Tagged by Anna

This is not a full tag post.  Sorry Anna, I will just answer your questions.

1. Would you rather go shopping or hunting?  Hunting.
2. Who wrote "The Charge of the Light Brigade?"  Beats me.
3. Are you post, pre or a mil? Why?  Pre.  Because, the tribulation is the Wrath of God, and, we are not appointed to wrath.   I will do a post on this sometime and give you a complete answer.
4. What do you like doing the most WITH  YOUR FAMILY....?  Bible study.
5. What is your dream car?  Hmm, this is hard.  Probably a Toyota pick up of some kind. 
6. What is your favorite store?  Atwoods. (Our local farm store.)
7. What is your favorite animal?  Goats.  They really are wonderful creatures.
8. How many moons does Saturn have?  100.  Really I have no idea.
9. How many stories is the Empire State Building ?  82??
10. What was the most embarrassing occurrence in your life.  Why would I tell you that? LoL.  Well I don't remember.  Not saying I don't have one.
11. What are you most thankful for today?  That HE is Alive!

Tagged by Jordanna

Rules of the game:

1. Post these rules.
2. Post 11 random things about yourself. (Though this can be optional.)
3. Answer the questions the tagger has set for you in their post.
4. Create 11 new questions for the people you ask to answer.
5. Go to their blog and let them know you've tagged them.  

Well, I was tagged by Jordanna.

About me:
Sorry I'm out of things...

Here are my questions:
  1. How many houses have you lived in?  Eight.
  2. Would you rather fly or drive?  Depends on the kind of flying.  As far as our airlines these days, I'll take driving all the way.  I'd fly myself any day.
  3. Science or Math?  Both.
  4. If you could choose one book, other than your Bible, to take with you anywhere, what would it be?  Book??? Book??  What an awful question Jordanna.  Probably my SAS survival guide.
  5. What do you think about keeping rats as pets?  Why would you do that?  Honestly I never thought of doing it, soo, well they are cat food right?  You don't keep cat food as pets do you?
  6. What is your favorite meal?  Anything special my Mother makes...
  7. Do you have a favorite era of history?  If so, what is it?  WWII
  8. Tea with the ladies or Shooting with the men?  Me with ladies?  Shooting all the way.
  9. Do you have a favorite section of Scripture?  The book of Revelation.
  10. Would you rather fix something or buy a new one?  Fix it, or die trying.  Not quite lol, but close...
  11. What is the next skill you plan on learning?  Hmm, I kinda learn as I go along, and often I really don't plan they just come up and need to be learned.  As far as one I plan for,  Flying?
Ok, I will skip the questions too, and I am just tagging Jordanna back.  Jordanna you needn't make a whole tag post I just want you to answer your own questions lol.

The Princess Bride

Well this is my first movie review.  I think that this is the dumbest movie I ever watched.  Those who love this movie, You Have Been Warned.

Ok, lets get started. First off, the movie gives you the idea that love makes you stupid, (though, sometimes it didn't take love for them to be stupid,) it also gives you a glimpse into a really silly kinda love, the soppy emotional kind. Now, lets start with the princess. At the beginning after she is a princess she takes a ride, by herself, way out into the country and tells three rough looking guys there are no people around, Hello? You are a lone woman telling three guys you don't even know that you are alone? Ok, now for the man in black, he's looking for her, gets up the cliff face and proceeds to have a seat and chat with the guy he is going to be fighting with. They chat then they fight, he nearly kills the other guy then goes on. Now how dumb is that? You are looking for someone, in a hurry too, then you find a guy that has been put in your way to kill you and you chat with him like he is your friend. Of course chatting with someone you will likely kill in minute is pretty silly anyway.

Ok, the man in black finally gets the girl, and she shoves him down the hill and then, with all the sense in the world throws herself after him in a suicidal plunge.  What a stupid thing to do. Next, and my favorite part, the two are walking through the forest, totally infatuated with each other, when some large possum or rat attacks the guy. The brave girl comes to his rescue with a log, and is afraid to hurt the thing, she just makes it attack her, and that is how she helped. After that they fall in quick sand and come out looking perfect, and go on through the forest, not paying attention to anything but "love" and walk right into a trap. Really good. What does the man in black do now? He antagonizes his captors, and gets knocked out.

The girl is brought back to the castle and the man in black is tortured while his two former enemies come to rescue him. Why? Well, I don't know. He nearly killed these guys, and they want to rescue him. Anyway, they get him and get him revived then head to the castle. The girl is rushed through a partial marriage ceremony and then decides to kill herself. Now, what justification is there for killing yourself? None that I see. But she is going to, it is not only stupid it is wrong. She only stops when her love turns out to be there.  What is romantic about killing yourself because you couldn’t marry the guy you wanted to, and were forced to marry a creep. Rather than kill yourself you should focus on godly service to that man, and godly submission, so that maybe through your example, he might get saved. Even if he rejects the gospel, he will have to live with your example.

Now for the last guy, Mr. Revenge as my sister and I like to call him. Don’t know how to spell his name, so, anyway. Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. That deals with that fella right there. He lived his whole life to get revenge on one man. What a waste. What else must I say? This character is a bad guy turned good, that really was a bad guy.

What is true love? True love is loving somebody that is difficult to deal with. True love is about loving unconditionally not expecting that love to be returned. True love is about sacrificing yourself for others, not just your life, but the little things too. Think of Christ, who sacrificed himself for us. He went through torture and the terrible death of the cross because he loved us. He did that for people that don't care about him, even for people that hate him. That is real love. Not some fake emotion that lasts for a fleeting moment then is gone. That love will last. How long do your emotions last?  What if you built your marriage on that? As soon as the emotion wears down it is all over. You wonder why the divorce rate is so high here in America? Because of examples set forth to people. Examples showing perfect people, (at least appearing so.) falling in love with each other, and everything being roses thereafter. But it is just an emotional love. Not real lasting love. When you want an example of love that lasts, think of Christ. He loved us in his life, and loved us to the point of death, and he still loves us, even when we reject him, hate him and spit in his face he loves us.

Wednesday, April 18, 2012

I've been tagged by Lizzy (Sort of)

I have been tagged thrice, so here is the first one, from Lizzy

The Rules:
1. Post these rules.
2. Post 11 random things about yourself. (although this one can be optional)
3. Answer the questions the tagger set for you in their post.
4. Create 11 new question for the people you ask to answer.
5. Go to their blog and tell them they have been tagged.

Random things about me:

1. I don't like raw asparagus

2. I have a scar on my neck where I stabbed a nail when I was five

3.  I have huge feet (if I were to go deep sea diving I wouldn't need to buy flippers, I grew a pair)

4.I can't think of anything else lol.

Lizzy's Questions:

1. What's your favorite music genre/artist?

 Intense military music, think Russian or German for example.

2. What do you like on your pizza?


3. Do you like subtitled/foreign films/dramas. If so, which ones are your favorites?

Um, well the only foreign film that I've seen is Babete's Feast.  It is a favorite of mine. 

4. What is your favorite cartoon character from film or comic book?

Don't have one 

5. What's your #1 fave fictional book?

A really hard question.  Maybe A Knight of the White Cross, by G.A. Henty.

6. When you find yourself liking a character, does it generally tend to be the all-righteous hero, or the bad-turned-good guy?

I like the most realistic/human characters, all righteous heroes are not realistic, so I guess that I would lean towards a hero that is good, but he is human and make mistakes sometimes.

7. Where do you see yourself in 5-10 years?

Where ever the Lord puts me.  That is all I can say right now.

8. If you could go anywhere in the world, where would you travel/live and what would you do?

I would probably live in the Northwest U.S. and I would have a farm.  As far as travel, weelll, I'd go see the Grand Canyon and some of the other parks, and maybe England and Germany, to see the old castles.

9. Do YOU like rice pudding? if yes, what's wrong with you?! *cough*

I don't know that I have ever had rice pudding.  I have had one kind of pudding in my life and I hated it. 

10. Do you often skip boring parts in books simply because, well, they're boring?

Me, first time through, I read everything, second time through I skim, lol.

11. Do you like guns?


Random Questions:

1. What is your favorite animal?

2. What OS do you use on your primary PC?

3. Courtship or Dating?

4. Can you drive?

5.  Do you love flowers, I mean really love flowers, (not just edible ones)?

6.  What is your favorite fruit?

7.  What is your favorite color?

8.  What is a normal day for you like?

9.  Do you vote Democrat, Republican or for whoever looks the least bad?

10.  What is your very favorite movie?

11.  What is your very favorite piece of music?

Have fun, anybody that wants to just tell me and I'll tag you.

Tuesday, April 3, 2012

What is a Real Hero?

           I have noticed a trend today, which cheapens the meaning of this word.  In this post, I intend to set it straight.  Let us start with a dictionary.  In Webster's 1828 it says as follows:

 A man of distinguished valor, intrepidity or enterprise in danger. 
         Today, anyone who goes to war is hero.  To be a hero, you must do something above and beyond the call of duty, at great risk to your own safety, or at the cost of your life.  Newspapers, shows, magazines, they all call those heroes that went to, or are fighting in the Middle East.  I am sorry, but they do not qualify.  Just the act of fighting your country's enemies is not heroic, just the act of going to war is not courageous.  You joined the military freely, but once you are in it, you have no choice.  They tell you where to go, and you go.  You are not a hero for obeying orders are you?  Risking your life to save others, that is real heroism.  Let us have some examples of real heroes.  Take the pilot in Vietnam that landed behind enemy lines, under fire, to save a downed and wounded comrade.  Or, the soldier who overlaid a granade that landed in the middle of his unit.
          What about the many Christians that have pressed on into blood and fire in the face of death that they might save one lost person?  Tyndale, who gave his life to bring the scriptures in English to the common man, or Huss, Hudson Taylor, John Birch, Brother Andrew, Richard Wurmbrand, Adoniram Judson,all men who risked and gave their lives for saving others, leaving behind padded careers for the gospel.  Are not these real heroes?   Should not we hold these men up as our examples, that we look up to, rather than some singer, movie star, athlete, or fake movie character?

Monday, March 19, 2012

Hello friends

Been gone a while haven't I, lol.  Anyway, I will be making some real posts soon, I hope that I still have a few readers to read them after my long absence.  Just wanted to let all y'all know that I haven't fallen off the earth, or forgotten that my blog exists, and I will be back soon,

God Bless,
                  Flame of Jah

Saturday, January 21, 2012

A good article on Modesty

I got this article from David Cloud of FBIS, I think it is spot on.  Please read and consider...


The following is from the author’s book, “Dressing from the Lord,” which is available from Way of Life Literature in print and eBook editions.

In my preaching conferences I have had occasions, sadly, to observe that though a church or Christian school might have pretty good dress standards (written or unwritten) for workers and youth, many of the girls and young women are dressed immodestly.

I am not the only one to notice this. One pastor wrote the following:

“In 2006, I visited the campus of --------- Christian College and attended a chapel service. I was grieved as I watched the students assemble. Many of the girls were wearing tight, form fitting blouses and skirts. There were a lot of skirts above the knee as well as slits that went above the knee. One pastor friend refers to the slit skirt as ‘peek-a-boo’ skirts. How can the young men possibly keep their minds pure as they train for the ministry when so many of the girls are dressing like strange women all around them?”

One lady wrote the following description of the fundamental Baptist church that she attends:

“The teenagers wear the skirts that come to the knee but when they bend over or sit down...well you know. Their tops are low cut with a v and look like they were painted on. … My husband leads the music and he said he can’t even look at the people because there are so many short skirts, etc.”

One man wrote as follows:

“Our church teaches and preaches separation. Our pastor has even compiled a small booklet on modest dress. Having said all that, we have had and still do have problems. In order to be a choir member or teach Sunday School, etc., we must sign a form saying we agree to the dress standards as well as many other standards of conduct. WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS, YES THEY ARE WEARING DRESSES, BUT MANY ARE FAR FROM MODEST. ... FORM FITTING CLOTHING [IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS]. A lady can be actually wearing a reasonably nice dress that meets the standard, at least in their mind it does, but the problem is that it is at least a size too small for her! These folks are rarely confronted because they are wearing a dress, you know! I believe we easily forget modesty and become lost in ‘I’m wearing a dress attitude.’ To be honest I have seen more modest pants on many lost ladies than the ‘dresses on our standard-signing church ladies.’ I'm not for pants; I’m just referring to our hypocrisy! It shows either a lack of discernment on their part or a worldly desire to show off the body, maybe both.”

Another man described the same problem:

“I am thankful you are writing a book about dressing modestly. It is needed in this day and time when most fundamental independent Baptist Christians think that just as long as they wear a dress that comes below the knee, it’s appropriate.”

The problem in these situations is that while the dresses might be long enough (when the woman is standing), they are still not modest because of the way they are cut or what happens to the clothing when the woman is involved with various activities.

For one thing the dresses can be cut too low. Many men who wrote to me mentioned that this is a great distraction and temptation.

But we must understand that modesty is much more than merely covering nakedness. That is just a baby step in modesty. The heart of the truly modest girl or woman is sensitive to holiness and aware of her influence in this world and seeks to be truly modest from every standpoint, caring nothing about merely “walking on the edge” of modesty.

One major problem is tight clothing. In our survey of Christian men on the issue of women’s dress we found that tight clothing is at least as much of a potential problem for men as skimpy clothing. Most of the men indicated that tight skirts and tight blouses and form-fitting jeans hold a “VERY great potential” for lust. One man said, “You don’t even need to see skin; they provide all the curves.” Another man said: “I would say the Number One problem is any garment that is form fitting, be it jeans, pants, skirt, dress, shirt, whatever. Anything that is tight, no matter how long it is, leaves nothing to the imagination, and that defeats the whole purpose of covering the skin in the first place!” Another man said: “One thing I see in my church is tight clothing. Oh, it may very well be covering but it is revealing the shape in a woman. This can be even more tantalizing to a man.” Another man wrote: “The point is that it is not merely the type of clothing that can trip a man up; rather it is the amount and the level of cling to the body.”

Thin clothing can also be a serious modesty issue. One man wrote: “If a woman is standing so that light can shine through her skirt, although she may be covered with a garment, it is so transparent that everything is revealed. A woman can be covered yet at the same time uncovered.”

There are many other ways to be “seductive” even in “modest” clothing. God, through the prophet Isaiah, rebuked the women of that day not only because of what they wore but also because of the countenance and because of how they carried themselves:

“Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet” (Isaiah 3:16).

One man wrote:

“It’s not just clothing that can be inappropriate -- also high heel shoes. They cause the hips to gyrate when the lady walks. The secular world told us this, so why is it in the church? Bright red nail varnish on fingernails and toenails, red lip stick, seamed stockings -- that look from the ‘50s and ‘60s. [It screams out, ‘Look at ME!’] It’s not always what the attire is but how it is worn and the woman herself. … Excessive use of perfume and make up -- both designed to draw men; they should be used with wisdom. Also, flirtatious natures and wanting to be noticed by the opposite sex should be reigned in.”

The battleground, of course, as we have noted many times, is the heart. If a lady is worldly in her heart, she will probably not be modest even if fully clothed and she will constantly be looking for ways to push the boundaries of any clothing standards with the objective of being cool and perhaps showing herself off.

A pastor that operates a home for troubled young women wrote to me and said, “We have had girls come from homes and churches that hold to strict dress standards, but they carry themselves like strange women in modest clothing because it’s in their hearts!”

It’s in their hearts! It’s in their hearts! Whatever is in the heart will show itself in the dress.

When young women’s clothes are form fitting and push the envelope of decency on every side, it is obvious that one of two things is happening.

First, in many cases the objective is not really to be modest before the Lord but rather simply to obey man’s rules and that only as long as necessary. That is a serious issue that is reflective either of an unregenerate heart or a backslidden one. It has been said that true character is demonstrated by what we do when no one is watching.

Second, there are doubtless cases in which girls and young women simply don’t understand how immodest they really are in the eyes of men. They are naively going along with the current fashion and with the crowd. If this is the case, the lady in question will be open to correction and will respond to plain preaching and teaching on this subject.

How can a church, then, resist the problem we have described and gain true modesty in the congregation? Following are some suggestions:

True modesty requires education. The females must not merely be given a dress code but must be taught the Bible principles of modesty carefully and urged to apply them consistently. This won’t happen through a sermon or a Sunday School lesson every few years. It requires making female modesty a real emphasis in the church and developing a course of instruction that will educate the people properly and in addition to that mentioning it often in the preaching/teaching ministry of the church in a kind and patient way.

True modesty requires example. It is crucial that the wives of the pastors and teachers and deacons and the older female church members understand the issue of modesty and that they are committed to it from the heart and are applying the Bible’s principles consistently rather then just going by a couple of written rules. If there is a failure here, it will be reflected throughout the congregation. If the wives of church officers push the boundaries of modesty, if they are careless about their necklines and if their dresses are too tight and if fashion is more important than modesty, the church will never win this battle. Victory has to start at the top.

True modesty requires exhortation. Teaching is not enough; exhortation is also needed. The preacher is instructed to “reprove, rebuke, exhort” (2 Tim. 4:2). This goes beyond teaching. Reproving, rebuking, and exhorting are all necessary. God’s people have a sin nature that tends to backslide and go after the things of the flesh and the world, and they must be reproved and exhorted to stay in the Lord’s narrow paths. This ministry of reproof is as much a necessary part of the pastor’s ministry as teaching. If he neglects it he is compromising. Both the males and the females of the congregation need to hear reproof on all areas of practical Christian living, and that certainly includes modest dress and separation from the world. Pastors who leave this out of their preaching will find that many things slip in the congregation because of the lack of plain reproof.

True modesty requires consistency in the preachers’ children. It is not enough for a pastor to preach modesty; his family must demonstrate it before the congregation and that includes his children. I have known of many pastors who have injured their ministry by the lack of enforcement of biblical modesty in the lives of their own wives and daughters. I recall a church in Florida where the pastor was a strong preacher and a soul winner, as well as a compassionate man and a good example to the people in many ways. But his beautiful teenage daughter dressed indecently and her poor example and her father’s acquiesce in the matter helped break down the separation from the world in the youth department and many young lives were ruined by the love for the world.

True modesty requires educated, concerned men. It is necessary for Christian men to understand the issues of female modesty and to take a stand for it in their homes and to support it in the church. If the women are trying to be modest but the men are worldly, the men will put pressure on the women to be more “fashionable” and “less dowdy.”

True modesty requires a wise dress code. I believe strongly in dress codes for Christian workers in this day and age, but the dress code must be thorough. It is not enough to say that the women must wear dresses rather than pants. It should describe all of the important features of a modest dress, that the neck line must not be low, that the clothing must not be tight, that it must be low enough so that the leg is covered properly down below the thigh, that it must not be clingy, that it must not be sheer, etc. The issue needs to be spelled out plainly. The dress standard is not only a code; it is a teaching tool to continually educate the people on this matter. Of course, if a girl or woman is worldly in her heart she will still look for ways to push the boundaries of the standards regardless of how clear they are, but that is separate problem altogether.

I would like to put in a few final thoughts here.  This is touched on in the above article, but I would like to bring it up again.  This is for the guys and girls.  Why do you dress the way you do?  Go look into the mirror and ask yourself, "Why am I wearing this?"  Are you wearing what you are wearing to show off?  Attract attention maybe?  Think about it please. 
Last thing:  Somebody questions the way you dress and you immediately draw your sword and raise your shield.  That is a red flag right there.  If you feel the need to get all defensive about how you dress, you might want to reconsider.  Usually when we get defensive and angry when someone questions something, we are in the wrong.  You see, if you are secure in what you believe you will not feel the need to get angry, but if not, you will feel convicted and get angry.  Please if this happens to you, go home and pray about it.  Ask God to show you His way.   That is all folks.  Just follow the Lord's leading fully, don't make yourself the final authority, make His word your final authority.

God Bless